The Holy Grail

Last post
FoilDodo's picture
FoilDodo
Offline
Joined: 03/19/2008 - 23:50
Posts: 2738
The Holy Grail

Ok, if I can just remember this and not do the same f'ing wrong things I always do. Shok

http://boards.co.uk/news/videos/3-carve-gybe-tips-for-planing-exits-every-time.html#VZ1J2Rtx45zUuKKY.97

0 Like
webguy's picture
webguy
Offline
Joined: 12/31/2000 - 22:01
Posts: 13784
Re: The Holy Grail

Superb video. Thanks. Makes me want to rig the 7.5 and the big slalom board and rip. Then I look out my window and get depressed.

Tip 4 which he omits: Go as effing fast as possible.

If you aren't clear on keeping the mast forward, choose just about any pic of Trey jibing on the website:

http://windsurfatlanta.org/gallery/album/491/item?page=0#content
http://windsurfatlanta.org/gallery/album/474/item?page=3#content
http://windsurfatlanta.org/gallery/album/493/item?page=45

Most of the rest of us look like T-Rex with our arms bent and rigs back.

Now, if he hadn't been such a scumbag to his wife after the last Olympics... http://windsurfatlanta.org/story/Dear%20Windsurfatlanta.org%20Part%2034 (damn, that's one of my better articles)

0 Like
FoilDodo's picture
FoilDodo
Offline
Joined: 03/19/2008 - 23:50
Posts: 2738
Re: The Holy Grail

The few jibe epiphanies I've had:

Bend your knees (duh)
Flip the sail one nanosecond after you start carving (apparent wind instantly goes to zero and you can do whatever you want with the sail, including duck).
Keep the mast vertical, not just forward, so the sail rotates around it... think of the tip barely moving at all.
Gotta hold your tongue right. Blum 3

0 Like
cp
Offline
Joined: 09/19/2007 - 23:09
Posts: 319
Re: The Holy Grail
Chris_Voith wrote:

The few jibe epiphanies I've had:

Bend your knees (duh) Flip the sail one nanosecond after you start carving (apparent wind instantly goes to zero and you can do whatever you want with the sail, including duck). (Keep the mast vertical, not just forward, so the sail rotates around it... think of the tip barely moving at all.) Gotta hold your tongue right. Blum 3

I got to disagree when it comes to the idea of spinning the sail around the mast - that's what I see most folks doing and this often seems to result in poor sail trim as one exits, loss of speed, sometimes a tendency to round up. I like to think of the rig as a unit, which I spin around it's center of mass and effort which is somewhere behind the mast. Note here that actively and forcefully spinning the rig seems to have an excellent effect, I think.

On another note, to me, the more commonly seen "step jibe" where you step while flipping the, sail is way,way harder to pull off than the so called "strap to strap" where your front foot basically remains in the strap until you rotate the sail and power off on your new tack.

0 Like
webguy's picture
webguy
Offline
Joined: 12/31/2000 - 22:01
Posts: 13784
Re: The Holy Grail
Quote:
Bend your knees (duh)
And, most of us aren't bending our knees enough. Worse, most of us are actually "sitting" - bending at the waist - instead of the knees. If your ankles aren't bending, neither are your knees. In light air, bend your knees enough to push the mast down - it keeps the rail in the water, the board planing and you forward.

You'll know if you aren't bending your knees in heavy air. Either you'll be off the back of the board, spinning out or the board will be bouncing out in the middle of the turn.

Quote:
Flip the sail
. And, this is different than waiting for the sail to flop to the other side. Flip the sail by moving the front hand by the mast, pushing the sail away with the back hand while yanking the front hand towards you. If you do it right with a smaller sail, you can flip it and grab the other side with both hands.
Quote:
Keep the mast vertical
We differ here. If you are depowering by oversheeting, the mast is going to be way over by the water for a fraction of a moment, and then it has to come back up for the flip.

As for the step jibe, the big advantage to it is that if anything goes wrong during the jibe, you can exit the other side clew first and gather your wits without swimming. Just sail the other direction clew first and then flip. It's super helpful to those learning because they can exit a jibe even if they haven't got the flip mastered or butcher it along the way. The other advantage of the step jibe is that it works really well on wider boards in light air.

Lastly, our objective should not be just to survive the jibe but to plane as often as possible through it. Most of us just "settle". If we make it from going from one direction to the other without swimming, we are satisfied. It's a heck of a lot more fun to blaze through the turn and you spend a lot more time planing. Just about any board produced in the last 20 years jibes just fine if your technique is solid including those ridiculously wide boards webguy insists on riding.

0 Like
Marek
Offline
Joined: 11/27/2004 - 09:05
Posts: 226
Re: The Holy Grail

More wind in ATL would help...hard to practice when you are not moving.

Marek

0 Like
Randy's picture
Randy
Offline
Joined: 05/05/2002 - 10:38
Posts: 4656
Re: The Holy Grail

Now let's see. Flip the sail one nanosecond after you carve - sounds like a good way to have flip around at warp speed and whack you in the face.

Bend you knees - what for - are you trying to kneel and pray for a good jibe?

Hold your tongue - how you gonna do that unless you let go of the boom?

Push the mast down - what are trying to do? Sink the board?

You guys are zero help....worst part is when you are jibing trying to remember "Now let's Chris say this but CP says that, webguy thinks...Oh crap IMRUNNINGINTOANEFFINGJETSKIER"

My thought is if I wanted my board to jibe better, I'd change sailors first. And send him to OBX.

The best part of Stand Up Garbage Bagging is no one else has done it - no one can tell you you're doing it wrong.....

What happens in a black hole stays in a black hole.

0 Like
arrogantj's picture
arrogantj
Offline
Joined: 01/24/2012 - 14:11
Posts: 1053
Re: The Holy Grail
randy wrote:

My thought is if I wanted my board to jibe better, I'd change sailors first. And send him to OBX.

Comedy gold.

randy wrote:

The best part of Stand Up Garbage Bagging is no one else has done it - no one can tell you you're doing it wrong.....

Actually, Randy, we already suspect you are...

ROFL

--- The Arrogant Jerk: Crabby and irritable since 1998.

0 Like
Micah's picture
Micah
Offline
Joined: 02/04/2015 - 17:56
Posts: 123
Re: The Holy Grail
randy wrote:

Now let's see. Flip the sail one nanosecond after you carve - sounds like a good way to have flip around at warp speed and whack you in the face.

You guys are zero help....worst part is when you are jibing trying to remember "Now let's Chris say this but CP says that, webguy thinks...Oh crap IMRUNNINGINTOANEFFINGJETSKIER"

This sounds like me learning to do everything.

0 Like
Marek
Offline
Joined: 11/27/2004 - 09:05
Posts: 226
Re: The Holy Grail

maybe soon we'll have self jibing windsurf boards...like self driving cars

Marek

0 Like
FoilDodo's picture
FoilDodo
Offline
Joined: 03/19/2008 - 23:50
Posts: 2738
Re: The Holy Grail

CP, I smell what you're stepping in with the mast rotation thing & I agree... it ought to rotate around its center of mass or close to it. I kinda picture the tip staying directly above the foot. Owing to the curved mast, a line between the 2 would put the rotation– maybe between the mast and harness lines?

0 Like
webguy's picture
webguy
Offline
Joined: 12/31/2000 - 22:01
Posts: 13784
Re: The Holy Grail
Marek wrote:

More wind in ATL would help...hard to practice when you are not moving.

0 Like
webguy's picture
webguy
Offline
Joined: 12/31/2000 - 22:01
Posts: 13784
Re: The Holy Grail
0 Like
Marek
Offline
Joined: 11/27/2004 - 09:05
Posts: 226
Re: The Holy Grail

William...the Gorge, the Gorge, its calling you.

Marek

0 Like
Randy's picture
Randy
Offline
Joined: 05/05/2002 - 10:38
Posts: 4656
Re: The Holy Grail

So now we are getting instruction from some guy with a phony accent that has lost all his hair? Maybe he should be getting tips from Rogaine. Oh, and he took more than a nanosecond to flip his sail. I'd like to see him pull off his moves at Galts or Azalea sometime.

(wait a minute. Maybe I need a Snickers. NVM)

What happens in a black hole stays in a black hole.

0 Like
arrogantj's picture
arrogantj
Offline
Joined: 01/24/2012 - 14:11
Posts: 1053
Re: The Holy Grail
randy wrote:

So now we are getting instruction from some guy with a phony accent that has lost all his hair? Maybe he should be getting tips from Rogaine.

He's a manly man who planes through his jibes. He doesn't need hair. He doesn't even want hair. He wants you to see the flash off his dome as he flips the sail without the board slowing a bit.

When you see that flash, you'll feel a little empty inside knowing, once again, he's planed through a jibe.

--- The Arrogant Jerk: Crabby and irritable since 1998.

0 Like
peelskid's picture
peelskid
Offline
Joined: 06/09/2003 - 15:33
Posts: 1099
Re: The Holy Grail

Give it up!

Just twist the throttle and Go! I don't need no blinking jibe.

PeelSkid

0 Like
cp
Offline
Joined: 09/19/2007 - 23:09
Posts: 319
Re: The Holy Grail

The jibe here illustrated - "clew first"? - obviously a potentially useful technique where you switch stance and sail away clew first then rotate the sail - is pretty much the exact opposite of "strap to strap" where sail rotation precedes stance rotation. If I've ever done one, I'm guessing that it was not on purpose and probably not very smooth or pretty. With the return of shortboard winds for moderate sail sizes I'll want to try it, I think. I'll also be looking to watch local folks using this method. I've not noticed it before, but then I wasn't aware and looking for it.

0 Like
webguy's picture
webguy
Offline
Joined: 12/31/2000 - 22:01
Posts: 13784
Re: The Holy Grail

imho, he exaggerates the clew first for the benefit of those still perfecting the jibe. For those who already have their jibe down, it works when you are underpowered and can't or don't plane the whole way through. By keeping power in the sail the whole way round, it steadies the board until you are ready to rotate.

Usually, on the step jibe, the flip happens with or just (a Randy term) nanosecond) after the step.

A bunch of people a lot better than me practicing:

0 Like
tolney
Offline
Joined: 06/05/2013 - 16:54
Posts: 12
Re: The Holy Grail

Thank you for the compliment on my jibes. I do tend to really try and push the rig forward. Early on when I was struggling with my jibes I repeated the same pattern over and over. I was always on the back of the board, loosing speed and flipping the sail way to late. This made for a sloppy non-planning Jibe. Now I gather as much speed as I can, lean into the turn hard and stay forward and flip the sail very early. Sometimes I don't switch my feet till I have accepted the new sail in the opposite direction. When I crash, I usually crash hard, always to the inside of a jibe and sometimes too far forward. Hope this helps somebody. We need wind to make it happen!

0 Like
webguy's picture
webguy
Offline
Joined: 12/31/2000 - 22:01
Posts: 13784
Re: The Holy Grail
tolney wrote:

Thank you for the compliment on my jibes.

You earned it.

Here's a good jibe video for those who are making it through and want to push on to something more. When I used to see the laydown in pics in the magazines, I had no idea that the sail had to come straight back up and quickly. I'd put it down, carve around and then get back-winded. Silly me.

Another tip that helped me: don't look at a) your hands, or b) the nose of the board. Instead look where you are going to exit. This solves all sorts of problems including flipping too late, carving too far back upwind, not bending the knees, etc.

0 Like